When it comes to AI and copyright, “there is no grey area,” McGuffin says. She talks about what a music publisher can do for a songwriter, the importance of export, and why tech companies need to pay for the music they’re training on.
Music publishing is one of the least visible but most powerful forces in the music industry. In Canada, it’s also often one of the most misunderstood.
Canadian artists like Tate McRae, Justin Bieber and The Weeknd are rightfully celebrated for topping the charts, but an equally important export story is unfolding behind the scenes — one driven by songwriters, composers and the publishers who help their work travel the world.
As in many other creative fields, Canadian producers and songwriters are well-represented in the writing credits of the world’s biggest hits by artists like Beyoncé, Dua Lipa, Benson Boone, Lady Gaga and Kpop Demon Hunters — even if you don’t know their names.
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Margaret McGuffin, CEO of Music Publishers Canada, represents companies responsible for the vast majority of songs heard across streaming platforms, social media, film, television and games.
The company creates opportunities for publishers and their clients, educates the industry and public about their role, runs trade missions, advocates and educates through programming and, most crucially at this moment, makes sure their work is properly paid.
As AI threatens to upend copyright for Canadian artists and rightsholders, McGuffin has been a fierce advocate for proper licensing. It's a stance that others, like SOCAN and many musicians across the country, have also adopted as AI music accelerates.
McGuffin is not against AI, she stresses. In fact, she sees it as a good business opportunity for those in the field. But she wants to ensure that copyright is respected and royalties are paid to the right people.
As she argued recently in the House of Commons, that doesn’t require a massive overhaul of the legislation. In fact, as her argument goes, the law already covers it. Those suggesting it’s more complicated than that are doing so to avoid paying.
In this Executive of the Week conversation, McGuffin breaks down how publishing really works, the importance of export for Canadian musicians, how songwriting careers are evolving, and why she believes there is “no grey area” when it comes to AI and copyright.
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Publishing is an increasingly lucrative sector of the music business, but it might also be one of the less known. For readers who may not fully understand the role of publishing, what is Music Publishers Canada and what do you do?
[The publishing companies who are our members] represent about 95% of the songs you hear. That’s whether it’s on streaming services, on TikTok, in games or on film and television, whether it’s a song or it’s a score.
Our members are responsible for that IP [intellectual property] and they work creatively and as business partners with songwriters and composers. They’re responsible for making sure the money gets in. They help songwriters and give them creative input for the songs being written, and then they pitch those songs.
Why do you think music publishing is such a misunderstood sector?
In Canada, we have a bit of a knowledge gap when it comes to songwriting. Many managers and labels think that every song is written by the artist.
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In the world of music publishing, we know that songs have many different ways of being created. Sometimes it is an artist-singer-songwriter, but often it is songs being written by other people, then pitched to those artists and their labels and their managers.
We’re a little sheltered in Canada and haven’t had the same sort of history [as in other countries]. That understanding of where songs live and breathe and find new life really isn’t there in the Canadian sphere as much as it is in Nashville or Korea or even Sweden, where their songwriters have travelled around the world for decades.
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We now see a lot of Canadian songs travelling around the world and they may not even be written for Canadian audiences. [That includes] songs written by Canadians or IP owned by Canadian music publishers.
If you look at Reservoir, which is a Canadian owned company, Golnar [Khosrowshahi] has signed deals with Joni Mitchell and k.d. Lang. Old songs have value in it too, and that's what music publishers do too. They're constantly pitching, for sync and for other creative.
Catalogues have become a huge asset. Another Canadian company, Anthem, was in that business of catalogue acquisitions before anybody was talking about it.
Beyoncé’s Billboard No. 1 “Texas Hold ’Em” is a big recent success story. That song was co-written in part by three Canadian songwriters: Lowell, Nate Ferraro and bülow. What did that moment signal to you?
I think that was a wake-up call [for a lot of people]. We’ve known for decades that’s the way that songs find their audiences. We see our members all the time pitching songs to artists or going into writing rooms and producing and or writing with artists for their next release. There are different ways. There are song camps. There are tracks being sent between producers.
That’s the way it’s worked in Nashville since the beginning of time. There are these constant meetings between label execs and managers and publishers. There are songwriters who never have appeared on an album, never had an artist credit. They’re working songwriters, and that is respected and understood and part of the Nashville experience.
Who does Music Publishers Canada represent?
We have about 50 members, large multinationals with Canadian operations and Canadian-owned companies that range in size from Anthem down to independent entrepreneurs across the country.
The companies are the members. Songwriters sign with publishers. It can be an administration deal where they’re just collecting royalties or a full publishing deal where the publisher helps creatively, pitches for sync and looks at opportunities for the song.
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Not all are emerging writers. Old songs have value too. That’s what music publishers do. They’re constantly pitching catalogues for sync and creative uses.
Publishing revenue in Canada has shifted dramatically toward export. Why is that?
The Canadian market — if you're just looking at keeping songwriters that are just writing for Canadian artists or writing for Canadian media — is not big enough to grow a thriving music publisher. 20 years ago, about 28% of revenue came from foreign sources. Today, it’s 82%.
Export is how you grow, how you scale and how you create opportunities for songwriters. You’ve got to be looking at co-writing around the world and songs that may not even be heard in Canada.
What advice do you give songwriters who are just starting out?
From the moment you write your first song, understand where the money is coming from. Join SOCAN. Join CMRRA. Make sure you’re tapping into the major royalty flows and taking care of the business side, not just the creative side.
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A publisher who’s a good fit creatively and on the business side is going to expand your opportunities internationally.
How does publishing help build longer, more sustainable careers?
You may have an artist project, but you can also be writing for others or composing. That gives you flexibility as your life changes. You might not want to tour forever. Writing and composing extends your career.
We see artists move into full-time songwriting or composing for film, television and games. It builds out your career and gives you more opportunities.
Music Publishers Canada is also heavily involved in copyright and AI policy. Why is this such a priority?
Copyright is a paycheck. We need to make sure songwriters and publishers are getting paid.
We’re interested in AI. There’s a licensing market emerging. But not all AI companies are willing buyers. There needs to be consent before you steal songs.
We’re urging the government not to change copyright. There should not be a text and data mining exception that allows companies to scrape songs for free with no consent.
There is no grey area. People who say there is don’t want to license. They want to avoid paying.
The legislation covers licensing of songs, but what about music that is trained on a style of an artist or their work? Does that make it more complicated?
No. That's what music publishers have been doing since the beginning of time. They license out very small segments. They license out interpolations. They're used to adapting to new tech. This is not new.
It’s challenging and there's lots of conversations that need to be had, but it's very doable.
The idea that it isn't possible to license, this is a myth being driven by tech companies who do not want to invest in the creators who are supplying what they're using.
You’ve also invested heavily in education and equity initiatives. Why does that matter now?
We’re entering our eighth year of Women in the Studio. We started it because just over 2% of songs were produced by women. We’re around 6% now, but it’s still a problem.
We also run NXTGen programming for younger publishing professionals, people who will sit on boards, start companies and shape export strategies. We need to invest in them.
We’re also releasing a report on caregiving in the music industry. We lose so much talent because the industry isn’t built to support caregivers, whether that’s elder care, spousal care or adult children care. That needs to change.
