Aaron Dessner and Gracie Abrams have now made three albums together, with the pop star’s third studio effort, Daughter From Hell, arriving July 17. But one song in particular has stirred up a few misconceptions, and in a recent conversation with Billboard, the producer cleared them up.
Hopping on a Zoom call on Tuesday (July 21) — just days after joining Noah Kahan on stage in New York to perform one of TheGreat Divide songs he produced, a cameo that severe weather almost ruined — Dessner addressed confusion over the production and subject of “Death Wish,” one of the most talked-about tracks on Daughter From Hell. Some listeners have expressed surprise that the spritely album version sounds so different from the somber live piano version Abrams initially recorded and released amid her Secret of Us Tour, questioning why the duo would “change” the “original.” (Spoiler alert: They didn’t.)
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Meanwhile, others have speculated that Abrams’ former Eras tourmate Taylor Swift inspired eviscerating lyrics such as “And I used to pretend that it didn’t feel evil/ Your light of a million suns burns through people,” even though the Gen-Z star has only ever praised the 14-time Grammy winner and even attended her wedding to Travis Kelce earlier in July. (Abrams has also said herself that “Death Wish” is about “a friend of mine who recently was dating, like, a mega narcissist,” something doubters have either forgotten or ignored.)
But if the commenters won’t listen to Abrams, maybe they will listen to Dessner. He sets the record straight in the condensed conversation below, while also telling Billboard about his ever-evolving dynamic with Abrams, whether she fills him in on the drama that may or may not inspire her songs, his cameo at Kahan’s show and more.
What’s the story with “Death Wish”?
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The studio version predates [the live recording] by several months. We wrote it, actually, the week that we recorded “That’s So True,” “I Told You Things” and [other] songs that were on The Secret of Us deluxe. In the wake of [Daughter From Hell] coming out, people were like, “Wait, what about the original version?” This is the original version.
There’s been speculation online that it’s about Taylor Swift.
Yeah, definitely not. It was written at a time when [Gracie] was writing about a friend’s ex, being in a bad relationship. So it was kind of about that person, I think. I wouldn’t even actually know who that person was.
How much do you and Gracie — or any of the artists you work with — talk about the real-life subjects of songs while you’re working on them?
Ultimately, you just become friends. Like, Gracie and I have worked together for more than six years now, and you kind of grow together, and there’s a lot of experience that has nothing to do with making songs. She’s very aware of my personal life, and I’m of course aware of hers — she’s close with my kids, for example. So I think, naturally, if she writes something, I’ll know. But we don’t really talk about it. It’s weird. It’s kind of unsaid.
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I would say the same thing for other people I’ve worked with. [I’m] giving feedback at times, lyrically, but I tend to … you don’t want to be like, “Well, you’re talking about this, right?” It’s more mysterious not to.
Gracie said recently that she tried to be less “careless” this time in terms of how songs might impact theirsubjects. Isthat something you observed firsthand?
I think she’s probably referring to certain songs that were written about past relationships. [As] songwriters, we all deal with this. What’s most compelling is to write about your own life or your experience, but … this record, to me, is more looking at herself. [She] was not editing [lyrics] after the fact, or writing and being like, “Oh, I gotta take that out. It’s too painful for someone else.”
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Do you have a favorite song on Daughter From Hell?
“What If It’s Right?” is one that when I listen to it, I’m still just floored. The song “Humming” is one that we had written, and then Justin Vernon [of Bon Iver] joined us and helped finish it. It’s just so magical.
“Cold Goodbyes” is just me playing this one synthesizer DX7 organ and Gracie’s singing, and it’s almost improvised in the studio. You could just tell that that was going to be the last song of the record. It still gives me chills.
I was personally surprised that Daughter From Hell was even less pop-centered than The Secret of Us, especially at a moment when Gracie could easily start reaching for bigger chart hits.
Some of the [songs] that we left off [the album] might be more obvious [pop hits], because they fit the bill of what someone might expect, but I think where she’s coming from, who she is as an artist … her motivation is very pure. She’s not trying to chase that kind of chart success or dominance. It’s much more about what feels most compelling artistically, and this was the group of songs that felt closest, I think, to her heart.
Also, for us, they’re all hits, you know? And I think that over time, my favorite records are ones that take time to reveal themselves, and this is one of those.
You performed with Noah over the weekend and have joined Taylor and Gracie on stage several times as well. As their producer, what goes through your head when you’re up there with them?
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If you would allow yourself to think for a second that the song you made in the quiet of your home was now in front of 90,000 people with their phones out, it can be pretty scary. But I love the feeling of when songs take on meaning for people — you work on them so hard, they finally get released to the world, and then you’re hearing them sung back at you.
Going on stage with Taylor at the Eras Tour, there was nothing that could prepare you for that. Those are NFL stadiums … there was no way to really know what that would feel like until you’re up there. Fortunately, she’s really good at making you feel in the moment. It felt safe. Noah, he’s so himself up there, the [same] way he is in the studio. [The Great Divide] is so loved, so the vibe is just really amazing. It felt very warm to go into that and join him.
You were originally supposed to perform with himthe night prior, before that show was canceled due to severe weather, right?
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There were constant meetings with meteorologists, basically. And they just figured out that, there was no safe way to do it. I was driving over there earlier in the day, and there was flooding everywhere. Even right around Citi Field, there was four feet of water.
It was a real bummer to be that close to performing, and then to cancel it. I was going to have to travel — the World Cup Final was the next day, which is very important to me [laughs] — but then we were like, “Is there a way I could stay?” And we figured it out.
